Explosives Rule Suggestion

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Explosives Rule Suggestion

Postby Miyitowin » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:54 pm

Just a note and a reminder to folks:

Answer: If no M.D.C. is listed by location, allocate 15% for each leg, 10% for each arm, 5% for the head, and the rest to the main body. The amount listed in the book for the main body will remain the same for the main body. For example a set of armor with 40 M.D.C. for the main body (as listed in the main book), will have the following assigned - 9 M.D.C. for each arm, 5 for the head, and 15 for the arm.

With Augur's official interpretation for the site as blast radius weapons hit every single location on a target, including unlisted ones, be aware that your character is instantly dead at even minor grenade or explosive impacts.

I like the lethality. People do not think enough in Rifts.

A 6d6 MD explosion has enough oomph to blow off all fingers on both hands, probably both hands, feet, and optics even if the armor holds.

There is no defense against this save a forcefield.

Also be aware that Glitter Boys can be rendered combat non-functional with 25 MDC of damage to one hand, and exposed missiles on vehicles and power armor detonate when damaged. Glitter Boy Killer? Lol, so much for that, after your 10 MDC grenade blast detonates all of the external missiles.

Same with SAMAS or anything else that carries weapons externally.

It's neither good, nor bad, but requires an adjustment of tactics.

I was thinking of ways to make it so that it's less abusable. IE, I blew buddy's fingertips off! He can't hold his gun anymore even if he has 100 MDC left.

Then it hit me:

What I *DO* move to suggest is?
Any location that requires a called shot to hit is immune to AOE damage by virtue of being tiny and likely to be missed by the shrapnel/blast.

This would prevent abuse of this mechanic while retaining the lethality it should have. It's also illogical tiny locations would take as much damage as big ones.

So rather than whine and such, I'm just going to suggest that as a new rule.

I think that's a really solid interpertation that works well to have what Augur is going for, the spirit of the rules and making explosives really f----g lethal at the same time.

But it really does solve the 'lol I grenaded his optics out with 5 MDC' problem.

You can say you grenade his head off which totally makes sense, as opposed to shrapnelling his nose to pieces and his toes and fingers too, which doesn't.

I think it's way, way way more sensible with ultimately the same effect.

It just closes a really dumb loophole.

Under my idea, you throw a grenade at a suit of power armor and it'll still hit 90% of it and f---k it right up.

But people can't whiningly say his fingers are gone and now he can't shoot anymore. (Unless his hands are big enough to be a normal target, then game on!)

Given the way people tend to be, folks will say this is what is going to happen until we say it can't. So let's. =)


Current Characters:
Thought: A steely skinned space minotaur of very little brain. (Galactic Adventurers)
The Mechanic: An artificial life form with deeply philosophical questions. (The Templar)
Shane: A Delphi Juicer on a quest to redeem himself from a dark past. (A.A.P.S.)
Miyitowin: A newly created Godling with no idea of who and what she is. (M.A.R.S.)

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Re: Explosives Rule Suggestion

Postby Tiree » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:27 pm

Do not forget, we have the GI Joe Rule on site as well. This gives you the ability to withstand the first grenade, not the second.

Also - the best way to deal with this - Force Fields.

I personally do not like this as a house rule, but rather leave it in the hands of the GM's. Your house rule is nice, and probably should be incorporated. I don't know how many times I had a thruster destroyed from some random hit. Having it blown off due to some AOE weapon I'd be even more frustrated. It's why the first thing I did was add a Force Field, it protects everything and is rechargeable.
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Re: Explosives Rule Suggestion

Postby CS High Command » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:27 pm

Explosion Discussion.jpg
*
I don't see official anywhere in that statement. In fact I see him saying GMs have leeway to run it however they choose. I like gritty combat, so I use have AOE damage everything in the blast radius. So does Augur. I have yet to see Maniacal Laugh use it much, unless it was dramatically appropriate. I know VV never really used it (unless it was dramatically appropriate, of course). Those are the only three other GMs I have experience with as a player. 1 out of 3 does not a majority make. I see no need to make any GM change his style. Use it or not. They should include that in their GM style notes, but really, either it's an issue and you know it is going in, or it's not and who the hell cares what happens in another game!

That said I already kinda do what you suggest - if it's too small to hit, it's too small to care about. Unless I am aiming for sensor antennae, or whatever. but again, no need for a site rule.

*I took out a few of my own comments that added nothing to it. I included the one of Jonathan's simply because Augur directly replied to it
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Re: Explosives Rule Suggestion

Postby Augur » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:32 am

"With Augur's official interpretation for the site as blast radius weapons hit every single location on a target, including unlisted ones, be aware that your character is instantly dead at even minor grenade or explosive impacts."

There's no house rule on this. I've simply shared via hangouts how I treat AOE explosives, and I NEVER said anything about unlisted locations.


"A 6d6 MD explosion has enough oomph to blow off all fingers on both hands, probably both hands, feet, and optics even if the armor holds."
If a hand is a listed location, okay, but I've never even seen a finger as a listed location.

And an external blast does not detonate internally stored ammunition. That wasn't even a rule in Battletech--a game which definitely addressed such issues. And in Palladium, generally speaking, such targeted effects/outcomes are not the norm. One thing I always liked about Robotech, and which you also see in RUE, are the optional damage tables for like when an RCV takes a critical hit to a particular location. Rolling up or picking as appropriate one of these is what I would do to add extra flavor to area of effect damage.

Be more cautious when putting words in the mouths of others, mate. Always double check your recollection.
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Re: Explosives Rule Suggestion

Postby Miyitowin » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:02 am

Yarr.

Part of it was being confused by the way the following statements came out by random chance:

Image

The other is over exposure to this particular argument. Heard it a little too much and it's a bit of a sensitive spot.

That said, it's still not a bad thing to have a site guide even if it isn't hard rules.

Either way though, I'm for enhanced lethality a bit in this case.

People need to think :O)


Current Characters:
Thought: A steely skinned space minotaur of very little brain. (Galactic Adventurers)
The Mechanic: An artificial life form with deeply philosophical questions. (The Templar)
Shane: A Delphi Juicer on a quest to redeem himself from a dark past. (A.A.P.S.)
Miyitowin: A newly created Godling with no idea of who and what she is. (M.A.R.S.)

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Re: Explosives Rule Suggestion

Postby Tyrannosapiens Rex » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:25 pm

Only the targeted location (main body as a default) takes full damage with a missile or contact grenade the way I did it in the past. Everything else takes the half damage from being within the blast radius.

Timed grenades, fusion blocks and the like are another matter.

Also, basic laws of physics should apply from a GM using common sense. Fragmentation and plasma may be deflected significantly for things toward the outer portion of the radius if there is something that survives damage between the center of the explosion and the person on the outside of the radius. For the concussive force of high explosives however, something solid (like a reinforced concrete wall) would have to survive between the center and that point for me to reduce the damage.

Also, archiving this discussion in Archived discussions would provide the kind of site guide requested.
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Re: Explosives Rule Suggestion

Postby Miyitowin » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:25 pm

I think a great way to handle that?

That is the difference between demolitions and actual weapons. ;)

I'd be totally OK with proper demo items doing 100% to their usual blast radius like Trex described.

Food for thought.


Current Characters:
Thought: A steely skinned space minotaur of very little brain. (Galactic Adventurers)
The Mechanic: An artificial life form with deeply philosophical questions. (The Templar)
Shane: A Delphi Juicer on a quest to redeem himself from a dark past. (A.A.P.S.)
Miyitowin: A newly created Godling with no idea of who and what she is. (M.A.R.S.)

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