Proposal: EP Menu Addition - Tattoo Magic

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Proposal: EP Menu Addition - Tattoo Magic

Postby Dime Store Magic » Thu May 10, 2018 3:15 pm

Magic Tattoos resemble psionic powers in that they are typically limited in duration and use a limited energy supply (P.P.E.). However, each tattoo also imparts increased P.P.E. and S.D.C./M.D.C. In my proposal below, I've taken the existing costs for psionic powers and added 3 EP to the cost to adjust for this benefit.

Base
(8 EP) Access Reward: Animal or Simple Weapon Tattoo of choice.
(13 EP) Access Reward: Dimensional, Magic Weapon, Monster, Monster-Shaping, or Power Tattoo of choice.
(6) Access Reward: Add an additional modifier to an animal, monster, simple weapon, or magic weapon tattoo after initial creation.

Gold
(7 EP) Access Reward: Animal or Simple Weapon Tattoo of choice
(12 EP) Access Reward: Dimensional, Magic Weapon, Monster, Monster-Shaping, or Power Tattoo of choice.
(5) Access Reward: Add an additional modifier to an animal, monster, simple weapon, or magic weapon tattoo after initial creation.

Ruby
(7 EP) Access Reward: Animal or Simple Weapon Tattoo of choice.
(11 EP) Access Reward: Dimensional, Magic Weapon, Monster, Monster-Shaping, or Power Tattoo of choice.
(4) Access Reward: Add an additional modifier to an animal, monster, simple weapon, or magic weapon tattoo after initial creation..

Diamond
(6 EP) Access Reward: Animal or Simple Weapon Tattoo of choice.
(10 EP) Access Reward: Dimensional, Magic Weapon, Monster, Monster-Shaping, or Power Tattoo of choice.
(3) Access Reward: Add an additional modifier to an animal, monster, simple weapon, or magic weapon tattoo after initial creation.

Explanatory Notes:

Rewards of this type must first be included in the player character's character sheet upon redemption. Then the new tattoo must be manifested as an in-character discovery through roleplay. Players and GMs are advised to coordinate in order to make this occur as soon as contextually possible. Some tattoo choices may require specific clan affiliations to obtain (i.e. Clan Skellian for Monster-Shaping, Splugorth for Power Arrows, Clan Aerihman Clan for Sunaj Power Tattoos). These EP purchased tattoos are exempt from the 2 tattoos per 6 months limitation. Notes: Non True-Atlantean and Tattooed OCCs activate tattoos at twice the listed PPE cost. Obtaining more than 6 tattoos can result in a change of OCC and prevent regular spell casting (Chiang-Ku Dragons being the exception to the rule).

Tattoo modifiers are listed in WB15: Secrets of the Atlanteans source book. Modifiers can be applied at the time of creation or added after creation. Modifiers that are incorporated during the initial creation do not count as an extra tattoo. Modifiers added after initial creation are counted as additional tattoos in terms of the maximum simultaneous activation limit (6 tattoos). It's almost always better to just have a new tattoo created with the desired modifiers rather than added them later.
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Re: Proposal: EP Menu Addition - Tattoo Magic

Postby Augur » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:31 pm

You should suggest this for discussion prior to making a proposal so you can get feedback and tweak as you deem necessary.
viewtopic.php?f=962&t=16683

(Though I seem to recall this being discussed elsewhere. Correct me if I'm wrong.)
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Re: Proposal: EP Menu Addition - Tattoo Magic

Postby Salomón » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:06 am

I like it.

I would clarify that, by the book, the Sunaj tattoos are secret and exclusive to the Sunaj (with a notable exception being the Splugorth, who have acquired most, but not all, of them). I think that per this truth, they should be exclusive to not merely the Aerhiman clan, but rather the Sunaj Illuminati itself or a minion of the Splugorth (the exception being the Explosion one which is completely secret to all but the Sunaj).

I also disagree with the 2 tattoos per 6 months restriction being lifted. There's no reason to make an exception to this rule that I can think of, other than player convenience.

Finally, it is my understanding that magic-users of all varieties cannot have more than four tattoos without obliterating their casting or magic powers, rather than six. There are several references to this. To my knowledge, the "six" tattoo maximum is in regards to becoming an M.D.C. creature and having supernatural attributes, which Atlanteans agree is reserved for the "martially-oriented" O.C.C.s. Am I wrong on this?

Otherwise, great job!
Salomón
Current Status
S.D.C.: 723/723
Hit Points: 223/223
Armor: High Magus armor: 50/50 M.D.C., with spine helmet (45 M.D.C and has 9 spikes, insect-like eyes, and beaded mouthpiece), non-environmental
P.P.E.: 128/168
I.S.P.: 43/47

"Always on": Sixth Sense, Sense Evil

Current Conditions:


Saving Throws, Bonuses, and other handy information
Spells, psionic attacks, drugs and diseases that cause confusion, dizziness or dull the senses are 1/2 as effective (reduce penalties and duration by half).
Coma/Death: +21%
Magic (varies): +5
Lethal Poison (14+): +4
Non-Lethal Poison (16+): +4
Insanity (12+): +4
Psionics (12+): +3
Horror Factor (varies): +3
Illusions: +1 (+6 if magical)
Mind Control: +3
Impervious to possession!

Speed: Salomón runs 440 meters per minute/110 meters per melee round/22 meters per attack @ 5 attacks per round. 3min and 40 sec per mile, or 2 min 18 sec per km, at running speed. Can run at half speed for 23 miles (37 km) before fatigue sets in. At maximum speed, can run for 7.6 miles (12.2 km) before fatigue!

Nightvision 1000 feet (305 m)
A.R.: Skin has a natural Armor Rating (A.R.) of 16
Damage Resistance: Amaki are naturally resistant to most forms of damage; all non-magical attacks, including physical and energy attacks, do only half damage. Magical and psionic attacks do normal damage.
Exceptionally good hearing and vision (slightly above the best human levels)
Rapid healing (heal damage five times as fast as humans).
Max. Encumbrance: 80 lbs.
Max. Carrying Weight: 420 lbs.
Max. Lifting Weight: 840 lbs.
Max. Jumping Ability: 10' long, 5' high
Fatigues at half normal rate, can hold breath for 3 minutes, has good balance (+5%) and coordination.
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Re: Proposal: EP Menu Addition - Tattoo Magic

Postby Dime Store Magic » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:18 am

It's up to the GM to determine how the character can receive the tattoo. As it says in the explanatory notes, the player and GM should be discussing how to make the acquisition of the tattoo happen within the story being told. I agree that the average Aerihman don't know about the Sunaj; but by the same token what player character is going to have a splugorth or high lord in their back pocket for power arrow tattoos? How will the character know from whom to get that type of tattoo in the first place?

As a player with an Undead Slayer activate on the site. In game time has been less than a day for the last 8 months of real time that I have been playing him. If we were to hold to in game time of 180 days, the character itself will probably be level 8 or 9 (if it's still around) without any additional tattoos being inked - and that's just for the normal level up tattoo options. There is still the requirement the character to make his way back to an NPC who can do the work. There's no need to put the time limit on an EP purchased choice. The adventure to get that restricted tattoo will take time in, and of, itself.

p85 of WB 2 states: "As many as six magic tattoos can be received without negatively effecting their spellcasting abilities."

The fluff text indicates that even one tattoo has potential negative stigma that the person was/is a slave of the splugorth. Most mages won't get more than 4 (if the option is available at all) - this is because in most cases the character's magical abilities are much more flexible and cost effective than using a magic tattoo, plus each additional tattoo reduces the number of tattoos needed to effectively destroy their spell casting abilities if they were to forcibly receive another.
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Re: Proposal: EP Menu Addition - Tattoo Magic

Postby Salomón » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:00 am

Dime Store Magic wrote:It's up to the GM to determine how the character can receive the tattoo. As it says in the explanatory notes, the player and GM should be discussing how to make the acquisition of the tattoo happen within the story being told. I agree that the average Aerihman don't know about the Sunaj; but by the same token what player character is going to have a splugorth or high lord in their back pocket for power arrow tattoos? How will the character know from whom to get that type of tattoo in the first place?


It seems to me that a PC would need to be a current, or former (good luck with that!), Splugorth minion to have that particular magic tattoo available, then. Of course, a GM could decide otherwise if they like.

Dime Store Magic wrote:As a player with an Undead Slayer activate on the site. In game time has been less than a day for the last 8 months of real time that I have been playing him. If we were to hold to in game time of 180 days, the character itself will probably be level 8 or 9 (if it's still around) without any additional tattoos being inked - and that's just for the normal level up tattoo options. There is still the requirement the character to make his way back to an NPC who can do the work. There's no need to put the time limit on an EP purchased choice. The adventure to get that restricted tattoo will take time in, and of, itself.


Undead Slayers begin play with 18 tattoos. They already get another 2 simple, or one major, tattoo(s) every level of experience. As EP tend to allow extra things "out of the ordinary" (that's sort of the idea behind EP, after all), maybe doubling that would be a sensible option. Now, the Undead Slayer (or whatever is getting additional tattoos) can get up to 4 simple, or 2 major, tattoos, at a given level of experience, provided you spend the EP and RP the journey/adventure.

But I don't think it should be only limited to EP, and some sort of mechanism should exist to fulfill the spirit, if not actual implmentation, of the two-tattoo-per-six-month rule. This is a RAI vs RAW issue, and while I'm sympathetic to the issue of "real" time being too long due to the inherent limitations of PBP, I don't see any reason why a PC should be able to go to a Tattoo Master/Chiang-Ku etc. and walk out with more than a few (defined as 2, or maybe 4 minor/2 major, in the case stipulated above) tattoos at once. Why else would the limit exist in the first place? It's not just fluff- it's mentioned in several places in both WB2 and DB 15.

Dime Store Magic wrote:p85 of WB 2 states: "As many as six magic tattoos can be received without negatively effecting their spellcasting abilities."


You're right, and that is also reinforced on page page 123 of DB 15. My bad.

A few additional points:
1. Recall that adding an enhancement to a Magic Weapon tattoo after the initial creation does qualify as an entirely new tattoo (page 153, DM15), so the character would need to add the enhancement at the time of creation to avoid that limit.
2. Dimensional tattoos should be handled very carefully (page 174). They are "typically reserved for" Tattooed Voyagers and made with them in mind. And, of course, they are even more painful and debilitating to get than other magic tattoos. I would say that, if not a Tattooed Voyager, even if a PC could manage to convince the Tattoo Master/Chiang-ku etc. to give them one (which should be an uphill RP climb in the first place), it should be limited to one per level, maximum, and the normal EP costs apply, as well as the 50% extra P.P.E. and P.E. costs to activate them. This means that anyone who is neither True Atlantean nor a Tattooed O.C.C. would pay 250% the P.P.E. and P.E. costs (rounded up, of course), provided they can even get the tattoo in the first place! If a non-Tattooed Voyager's (but still True Atlantean, or a T-man) RP climb is "uphill", this would rather be along the lines of a "Herculean effort" to obtain from a RP perspective.
Salomón
Current Status
S.D.C.: 723/723
Hit Points: 223/223
Armor: High Magus armor: 50/50 M.D.C., with spine helmet (45 M.D.C and has 9 spikes, insect-like eyes, and beaded mouthpiece), non-environmental
P.P.E.: 128/168
I.S.P.: 43/47

"Always on": Sixth Sense, Sense Evil

Current Conditions:


Saving Throws, Bonuses, and other handy information
Spells, psionic attacks, drugs and diseases that cause confusion, dizziness or dull the senses are 1/2 as effective (reduce penalties and duration by half).
Coma/Death: +21%
Magic (varies): +5
Lethal Poison (14+): +4
Non-Lethal Poison (16+): +4
Insanity (12+): +4
Psionics (12+): +3
Horror Factor (varies): +3
Illusions: +1 (+6 if magical)
Mind Control: +3
Impervious to possession!

Speed: Salomón runs 440 meters per minute/110 meters per melee round/22 meters per attack @ 5 attacks per round. 3min and 40 sec per mile, or 2 min 18 sec per km, at running speed. Can run at half speed for 23 miles (37 km) before fatigue sets in. At maximum speed, can run for 7.6 miles (12.2 km) before fatigue!

Nightvision 1000 feet (305 m)
A.R.: Skin has a natural Armor Rating (A.R.) of 16
Damage Resistance: Amaki are naturally resistant to most forms of damage; all non-magical attacks, including physical and energy attacks, do only half damage. Magical and psionic attacks do normal damage.
Exceptionally good hearing and vision (slightly above the best human levels)
Rapid healing (heal damage five times as fast as humans).
Max. Encumbrance: 80 lbs.
Max. Carrying Weight: 420 lbs.
Max. Lifting Weight: 840 lbs.
Max. Jumping Ability: 10' long, 5' high
Fatigues at half normal rate, can hold breath for 3 minutes, has good balance (+5%) and coordination.
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Re: Proposal: EP Menu Addition - Tattoo Magic

Postby Augur » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:54 pm

Dime Store Magic wrote:Magic Tattoos resemble psionic powers in that they are typically limited in duration and use a limited energy supply (P.P.E.). However, each tattoo also imparts increased P.P.E. and S.D.C./M.D.C. In my proposal below, I've taken the existing costs for psionic powers and added 3 EP to the cost to adjust for this benefit.

Base
(8 EP) Access Reward: Animal or Simple Weapon Tattoo of choice.
(13 EP) Access Reward: Dimensional, Magic Weapon, Monster, Monster-Shaping, or Power Tattoo of choice.
(6) Access Reward: Add an additional modifier to an animal, monster, simple weapon, or magic weapon tattoo after initial creation.

Gold
(7 EP) Access Reward: Animal or Simple Weapon Tattoo of choice
(12 EP) Access Reward: Dimensional, Magic Weapon, Monster, Monster-Shaping, or Power Tattoo of choice.
(5) Access Reward: Add an additional modifier to an animal, monster, simple weapon, or magic weapon tattoo after initial creation.

Ruby
(7 EP) Access Reward: Animal or Simple Weapon Tattoo of choice.
(11 EP) Access Reward: Dimensional, Magic Weapon, Monster, Monster-Shaping, or Power Tattoo of choice.
(4) Access Reward: Add an additional modifier to an animal, monster, simple weapon, or magic weapon tattoo after initial creation..

Diamond
(6 EP) Access Reward: Animal or Simple Weapon Tattoo of choice.
(10 EP) Access Reward: Dimensional, Magic Weapon, Monster, Monster-Shaping, or Power Tattoo of choice.
(3) Access Reward: Add an additional modifier to an animal, monster, simple weapon, or magic weapon tattoo after initial creation.

Explanatory Notes:

Rewards of this type must first be included in the player character's character sheet upon redemption. Then the new tattoo must be manifested as an in-character discovery through roleplay. Players and GMs are advised to coordinate in order to make this occur as soon as contextually possible. Some tattoo choices may require specific clan affiliations to obtain (i.e. Clan Skellian for Monster-Shaping, Splugorth for Power Arrows, Clan Aerihman Clan for Sunaj Power Tattoos). These EP purchased tattoos are exempt from the 2 tattoos per 6 months limitation. Notes: Non True-Atlantean and Tattooed OCCs activate tattoos at twice the listed PPE cost. Obtaining more than 6 tattoos can result in a change of OCC and prevent regular spell casting (Chiang-Ku Dragons being the exception to the rule).

Tattoo modifiers are listed in WB15: Secrets of the Atlanteans source book. Modifiers can be applied at the time of creation or added after creation. Modifiers that are incorporated during the initial creation do not count as an extra tattoo. Modifiers added after initial creation are counted as additional tattoos in terms of the maximum simultaneous activation limit (6 tattoos). It's almost always better to just have a new tattoo created with the desired modifiers rather than added them later.


I'm willing to green-light this proposal, but request the following:

1. Ensure that the prices paralel the purchases for normal spells if at all possible--I'd really prefer not to have a gigantically lengthy EP menu.
2. Formatting: get the details of what of tattoos, etc. into the explanatory notes & incorporate the tattoos into the wording of the invocation purchase options.

Doable?
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Re: Proposal: EP Menu Addition - Tattoo Magic

Postby Vortigern » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:34 pm

I like this proposal as well. Definite added value for game play here.
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Re: Proposal: EP Menu Addition - Tattoo Magic

Postby Dime Store Magic » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:02 am

Augur, here's an attempt to shoe-horn the tattoo proposal into the existing Magic Rewards sections. Note the differences in cost compared to the original proposal.

Currently there is Rifter content for tattoos that have been approved from Rifter 52 in the misc rules, there are also some tattoos in Rifter 61 that have not yet been approved for use. I don't believe there is an active character that uses the tattoos in Rifter 52, but I know there are in-active characters that have them. A decision is probably warranted on the "Flux" tattoos described in Rifter 52 as to allow them at all or put them in the legendary or very high spell category.


Magic Rewards
(2 EP) Access Reward (Low): New Spell (from Incantation Levels 1-4, 1-2 for Elemental Magic), or Tattoo Modifier for an existing animal, monster, simple weapon, or magic weapon tattoo
(4 EP) Access Reward (Mid): New Spell (from Incantation Levels 5-8, 3-4 for Elemental Magic), or Simple Weapon/Animal Tattoo
(10 EP) Access Reward (High): New Spell (from Incantation Levels 9-12, 5-6 for Elemental Magic) or Dimensional, Magic Weapon, Monster, Monster Shaping, Power, or Power Arrow tattoo
(15 EP) Access Reward (Very High): New Spell (from Incantation Levels 13-15, 7-8 for Elemental Magic)
(20 EP) Access Reward (Legend): New Spell of Legend



Magic Rewards
(2 EP) Access Unlock (Low): New Spell (from Incantation Levels 1-4, 1-2 for Elemental Magic), or Tattoo Modifer for an existing animal, monster, simple weapon, or magic weapon tattoo
(4 EP) Access Unlock (Mid): New Spell (from Incantation Levels 5-8, 3-4 for Elemental Magic), or Simple Weapon/Animal Tattoo
(10 EP) Access Unlock (High): New Spell (from Incantation Levels 9-12, 5-6 for Elemental Magic), or Dimensional, Magic Weapon, Monster, Monster Shaping, Power, or Power Arrow tattoo
(15 EP) Access Unlock (Very High): New Spell (from Incantation Levels 13-15, 7-8 for Elemental Magic)

    Rewards of this type must first be included in the player character's character sheet upon redemption. Then the new spell knowledge or tattoo must be manifested as an in-character discovery through roleplay. Players and GMs are advised to coordinate in order to make this occur as soon as contextually possible. Necessarily, non-mages cannot manifest magic knowledge.

(20 EP) Access Unlock (Legend): New Spell of Legend

    Rewards of this type must first be included in the player character's character sheet upon redemption. Spells of this type must then be earned as part of a quest obtained via the Collegiate Arcane, Deity, or some other super-powerful arcane source. GMs are advised to weave such quests into the player character's next adventure. Players and GMs are advised to coordinate in order to make this occur as soon as contextually possible.

Necessarily, non-mages cannot learn and channel spells.

Q: Does using EP to purchase a spell allow you access to a spell you normally could not gain access to?
A: No. If your O.C.C. restricts your type of spell magic, you stay within those restrictions.

Q: Can one use EP to purchase a restricted tattoo type (Monster-Shaping from Clan Skellian for example)?
A: The player should discuss with his/her respective GM how they will via RP determine the circumstances of obtaining the tattoo will occur before purchasing the tattoo with EP.


Code: Select all
[b][u]Magic Rewards[/u][/b]
[color=#4000FF](2 EP)[/color] Access Reward (Low): New Spell  [size=85](from Incantation Levels 1-4, 1-2 for Elemental Magic)[/size], or Tattoo Modifier for an existing animal, monster, simple weapon, or magic weapon tattoo
[color=#4000FF](4 EP)[/color] Access Reward (Mid): New Spell [size=85](from Incantation Levels 5-8, 3-4 for Elemental Magic)[/size], or Simple Weapon/Animal Tattoo
[color=#4000FF](10 EP)[/color] Access Reward (High): New Spell [size=85](from Incantation Levels 9-12, 5-6 for Elemental Magic)[/size] or Dimensional, Magic Weapon, Monster, Monster Shaping, Power, or Power Arrow tattoo
[color=#4000FF](15 EP)[/color] Access Reward (Very High): New Spell [size=85](from Incantation Levels 13-15, 7-8 for Elemental Magic)[/size]
[color=#4000FF](20 EP)[/color] Access Reward (Legend): New Spell of Legend


Code: Select all
[b][u]Magic Rewards[/u][/b]
[color=#4000FF](2 EP)[/color] Access Reward (Low): New Spell  [size=85](from Incantation Levels 1-4, 1-2 for Elemental Magic), or Tattoo Modifier for an existing animal, monster, simple weapon, or magic weapon tattoo[/size]
[color=#4000FF](4 EP)[/color] Access Reward (Mid): New Spell [size=85](from Incantation Levels 5-8, 3-4 for Elemental Magic), or Simple Weapon/Animal Tattoo[/size]
[color=#4000FF](10 EP)[/color] Access Reward (High): New Spell [size=85](from Incantation Levels 9-12, 5-6 for Elemental Magic) or Dimensional, Magic Weapon, Monster, Monster Shaping, Power, or Power Arrow tattoo[/size]
[color=#4000FF](15 EP)[/color] Access Reward (Very High): New Spell [size=85](from Incantation Levels 13-15, 7-8 for Elemental Magic)[/size]

[list][color=#4000FF]Rewards of this type must first be included in the player character's character sheet upon redemption. Then the new spell knowledge or tattoo must be manifested as an in-character discovery through roleplay. Players and GMs are advised to coordinate in order to make this occur as soon as contextually possible. Necessarily, non-mages cannot manifest magic knowledge.[/color][/list]

[color=#4000FF](20 EP)[/color] Access Unlock (Legend): New Spell of Legend

[list][color=#4000FF]Rewards of this type must first be included in the player character's character sheet upon redemption. Spells of this type must then be earned as part of a quest obtained via the Collegiate Arcane, Deity, or some other super-powerful arcane source. GMs are advised to weave such quests into the player character's next adventure. Players and GMs are advised to coordinate in order to make this occur as soon as contextually possible.[/color][/list]

[color=#4000FF]Necessarily, non-mages cannot learn and channel spells.
[list]Q:  Does using EP to purchase a spell allow you access to a spell you normally could not gain access to?
A:  No. If your O.C.C. restricts your type of spell magic, you stay within those restrictions.

Q:  Can one use EP to purchase a restricted tattoo type (Monster-Shaping from Clan Skellian for example)?
A:  The player should discuss with his/her respective GM how they will via RP determine the circumstances of obtaining the tattoo will occur before purchasing the tattoo with EP.[/color][/list]
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