Proposal: Atlantean Stone Master O.C.C. skill change

All admin-related content and proposals are managed here. Proposals must include "Proposal:" in the subject line of the new thread to even be considered.

Moderator: Augur

Proposal: Atlantean Stone Master O.C.C. skill change

Postby Salomón » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:40 am

In the (revisited) Atlantean Stone Master O.C.C. description (Secrets of the Atlanteans, page 122), one of the O.C.C. skills is Whittling and Sculpting.

Let's examine a few things about this:

  • The Stone Master "can mold solid granite or any type of stone and rock with his bare hands as if it were clay" (page 118 of the above referenced book)
  • The next line in the same power referenced above also says ".... the sorcerer molds it like soft clay!"
  • The beginning of the O.C.C. description on page 116 states, "Stone Masters are practitioners of magic with a special gift, the talent to mend, shape, sculpt, transport, and commune with stone, rock and gems" and "In addition to being able to blend and mold the rocks with their bare hands..."
  • The same page discusses in multiple areas how Stone Masters are "sculptors" and view sculptures

Now, let's examine the description for Whittling and Sculpting (RUE page 326)

  • Whittling and Sculpting is "The art of carving and shaping wood, bone and horn" - stone isn't even included in the materials someone with this skill can utilize!
  • The remaining description focuses exclusively on on the "whittling" aspect of this skill.
  • Recall once more than this skill is listed as an O.C.C. skill - implying that it's part and parcel of the O.C.C.'s focus!

Alternately, let's take a peek at the description for Art (RUE page 323)
  • "The ability to draw, paint and/or sculpt or do craft work."
  • The remaining description focuses on whether, depending on how the skill is selected, the work is "talented amateur" or "professional" level quality.

I submit that, based upon these factors, the Art skill is more true to the spirt (and letter) of the class.

Therefore, my proposal is to replace Whittling and Sculpting with Art for the relevant O.C.C. skill of the (revisited) Atlantean Stone Master O.C.C.
Current Status
S.D.C.: 723/723
M.D.C.: 0
Armor: High Magus armor: 50/50 M.D.C., with spine helmet (45 M.D.C and has 9 spikes, insect-like eyes, and beaded mouthpiece), non-environmental
P.P.E.: 168/168
I.S.P.: 43/47

"Always on": Sixth Sense, Sense Evil

Current Conditions:


Saving Throws, Bonuses, and other handy information
Spells, psionic attacks, drugs and diseases that cause confusion, dizziness or dull the senses are 1/2 as effective (reduce penalties and duration by half).
Coma/Death: +21%
Magic (varies): +5
Lethal Poison (14+): +4
Non-Lethal Poison (16+): +4
Insanity (12+): +4
Psionics (12+): +3
Horror Factor (varies): +3
Illusions: +1 (+6 if magical)
Mind Control: +3
Impervious to possession!

Speed: Salomón runs 440 meters per minute/110 meters per melee round/22 meters per attack @ 5 attacks per round. 3min and 40 sec per mile, or 2 min 18 sec per km, at running speed. Can run at half speed for 23 miles (37 km) before fatigue sets in. At maximum speed, can run for 7.6 miles (12.2 km) before fatigue!

Nightvision 1000 feet (305 m)
A.R.: Skin has a natural Armor Rating (A.R.) of 16
Damage Resistance: Amaki are naturally resistant to most forms of damage; all non-magical attacks, including physical and energy attacks, do only half damage. Magical and psionic attacks do normal damage.
Exceptionally good hearing and vision (slightly above the best human levels)
Rapid healing (heal damage five times as fast as humans).
Max. Encumbrance: 80 lbs.
Max. Carrying Weight: 420 lbs.
Max. Lifting Weight: 840 lbs.
Max. Jumping Ability: 10' long, 5' high
Fatigues at half normal rate, can hold breath for 3 minutes, has good balance (+5%) and coordination.
User avatar
Salomón
Diamond Level Patron
Diamond Level Patron
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:54 pm

Re: Proposal: Atlantean Stone Master O.C.C. skill change

Postby Augur » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:48 am

I believe this appropriately fits into the category of mostly irrelevant minutia.
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
To help support this site, use paypal.me/LloydRitchey
User avatar
Augur
Admin
 
Posts: 3745
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:19 pm
Location: lloyd.ritchey

Re: Proposal: Atlantean Stone Master O.C.C. skill change

Postby Brute » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:10 am

The only thing I don't like is the trading of a narrow skill for a broader skill, but in this particular case it's fairly meaningless.
Brute

Normal Form
AR: 0
HP: 45/45
SDC: 186/186

Monstrous Form
AR: 13
HP: 40/40
SDC: 846/846

Motion detector, 20’ radius range
Predator’s hearing (+2 Initiative, 8X Normal)

Omega Suit
A.R.: 17
SDC: 52/250
Features:
1) Hyper-mimetic alloy fibers change size and molecular composition to fit wearer regardless of APS powers, shape or size changes.
2) Built-in short range encrypted radio transceiver (Omega freq only).
3) Built-in RFID transponder for C.S.P.D. verifies wearer is a Centurion to all C.S.P.D. and their precise GPS location within 20'

Draupnir
    Mind Block Auto-Defense
    +2 vs. magic; +2 vs. Horror Factor
User avatar
Brute
Gold Level Patron
Gold Level Patron
 
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:48 am
Location: Starkville, MS

Re: Proposal: Atlantean Stone Master O.C.C. skill change

Postby Salomón » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:16 am

Augur wrote:I believe this appropriately fits into the category of mostly irrelevant minutia.

Only for those who don't take the O.C.C., IMO.

The reason is that the Art skill has other useful applications, such as drawing (which can be quite relevant in the right circumstances), painting (for example - the Amaki paint their faces and bodies sometimes), etc. But Whittling is... well, it's whittling. Not much else to it.

I can see how it's a very niche thing, though.
Current Status
S.D.C.: 723/723
M.D.C.: 0
Armor: High Magus armor: 50/50 M.D.C., with spine helmet (45 M.D.C and has 9 spikes, insect-like eyes, and beaded mouthpiece), non-environmental
P.P.E.: 168/168
I.S.P.: 43/47

"Always on": Sixth Sense, Sense Evil

Current Conditions:


Saving Throws, Bonuses, and other handy information
Spells, psionic attacks, drugs and diseases that cause confusion, dizziness or dull the senses are 1/2 as effective (reduce penalties and duration by half).
Coma/Death: +21%
Magic (varies): +5
Lethal Poison (14+): +4
Non-Lethal Poison (16+): +4
Insanity (12+): +4
Psionics (12+): +3
Horror Factor (varies): +3
Illusions: +1 (+6 if magical)
Mind Control: +3
Impervious to possession!

Speed: Salomón runs 440 meters per minute/110 meters per melee round/22 meters per attack @ 5 attacks per round. 3min and 40 sec per mile, or 2 min 18 sec per km, at running speed. Can run at half speed for 23 miles (37 km) before fatigue sets in. At maximum speed, can run for 7.6 miles (12.2 km) before fatigue!

Nightvision 1000 feet (305 m)
A.R.: Skin has a natural Armor Rating (A.R.) of 16
Damage Resistance: Amaki are naturally resistant to most forms of damage; all non-magical attacks, including physical and energy attacks, do only half damage. Magical and psionic attacks do normal damage.
Exceptionally good hearing and vision (slightly above the best human levels)
Rapid healing (heal damage five times as fast as humans).
Max. Encumbrance: 80 lbs.
Max. Carrying Weight: 420 lbs.
Max. Lifting Weight: 840 lbs.
Max. Jumping Ability: 10' long, 5' high
Fatigues at half normal rate, can hold breath for 3 minutes, has good balance (+5%) and coordination.
User avatar
Salomón
Diamond Level Patron
Diamond Level Patron
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:54 pm

Re: Proposal: Atlantean Stone Master O.C.C. skill change

Postby Tiree » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:50 pm

Okay - I'm going to step into this one:

I don't believe a change is needed. Art is a Skill, Sculpting is a different skill. Not all sculptors can paint, and not all painters can sculpt. In this case, you have a base occ who can create sculpted objects, they are just not pretty. And that's okay!
User avatar
Tiree
Admin
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:44 am
Location: IT SUPPORT

Re: Proposal: Atlantean Stone Master O.C.C. skill change

Postby Salomón » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:45 am

Tiree wrote:Okay - I'm going to step into this one:

I don't believe a change is needed. Art is a Skill, Sculpting is a different skill. Not all sculptors can paint, and not all painters can sculpt. In this case, you have a base occ who can create sculpted objects, they are just not pretty. And that's okay!


I think that this would hold up better if the Whittling and Sculpting skill actually talked about sculpting (it doesn't at all, except in the title of the skill) and actually had something to do with stone. It explicitly mentions 3 things - none of which include stone. A Stone Master's medium is...stone, not "wood, bone and horn"
Current Status
S.D.C.: 723/723
M.D.C.: 0
Armor: High Magus armor: 50/50 M.D.C., with spine helmet (45 M.D.C and has 9 spikes, insect-like eyes, and beaded mouthpiece), non-environmental
P.P.E.: 168/168
I.S.P.: 43/47

"Always on": Sixth Sense, Sense Evil

Current Conditions:


Saving Throws, Bonuses, and other handy information
Spells, psionic attacks, drugs and diseases that cause confusion, dizziness or dull the senses are 1/2 as effective (reduce penalties and duration by half).
Coma/Death: +21%
Magic (varies): +5
Lethal Poison (14+): +4
Non-Lethal Poison (16+): +4
Insanity (12+): +4
Psionics (12+): +3
Horror Factor (varies): +3
Illusions: +1 (+6 if magical)
Mind Control: +3
Impervious to possession!

Speed: Salomón runs 440 meters per minute/110 meters per melee round/22 meters per attack @ 5 attacks per round. 3min and 40 sec per mile, or 2 min 18 sec per km, at running speed. Can run at half speed for 23 miles (37 km) before fatigue sets in. At maximum speed, can run for 7.6 miles (12.2 km) before fatigue!

Nightvision 1000 feet (305 m)
A.R.: Skin has a natural Armor Rating (A.R.) of 16
Damage Resistance: Amaki are naturally resistant to most forms of damage; all non-magical attacks, including physical and energy attacks, do only half damage. Magical and psionic attacks do normal damage.
Exceptionally good hearing and vision (slightly above the best human levels)
Rapid healing (heal damage five times as fast as humans).
Max. Encumbrance: 80 lbs.
Max. Carrying Weight: 420 lbs.
Max. Lifting Weight: 840 lbs.
Max. Jumping Ability: 10' long, 5' high
Fatigues at half normal rate, can hold breath for 3 minutes, has good balance (+5%) and coordination.
User avatar
Salomón
Diamond Level Patron
Diamond Level Patron
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:54 pm

Re: Proposal: Atlantean Stone Master O.C.C. skill change

Postby Dark Lord » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:40 pm

Salomón wrote:I think that this would hold up better if the Whittling and Sculpting skill actually talked about sculpting (it doesn't at all, except in the title of the skill) and actually had something to do with stone. It explicitly mentions 3 things - none of which include stone. A Stone Master's medium is...stone, not "wood, bone and horn"

I mean... It's in the skill name. The art skill doesn't mention working with stone, either, and I don't think any reasonable GM would rule the way you're afraid of. I don't think that this is a big enough issue to be worth the bloat for our already-massive house rules section, as others have stated.
Why kill a PC when you can torture them?
ImageImageImage
User avatar
Dark Lord
Dimension Master
 
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:36 am
Location: DIMENSION MASTER: PHASE WORLD

Re: Proposal: Atlantean Stone Master O.C.C. skill change

Postby CS High Command » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:10 pm

Easier, just mention that the skill covers stone - done
Image
"Be strong and do as you will. The swords of others will set you your limits." (Marauders of Gor, p.10)
"Yippee-ki-yay magic lovers." Lt. John Freeman, CS110 at the Sorocco Skirmish of May 110PA

(Many thanks to SNAFU for the basis of my new AVATAR!)
User avatar
CS High Command
Game Master
 
Posts: 975
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:54 pm
Location: Game Master: CS 110 Nightstalkers

Re: Proposal: Atlantean Stone Master O.C.C. skill change

Postby Salomón » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:09 pm

CS High Command wrote:Easier, just mention that the skill covers stone - done


That would do it, too.

Dark Lord wrote:
Salomón wrote:I think that this would hold up better if the Whittling and Sculpting skill actually talked about sculpting (it doesn't at all, except in the title of the skill) and actually had something to do with stone. It explicitly mentions 3 things - none of which include stone. A Stone Master's medium is...stone, not "wood, bone and horn"

I mean... It's in the skill name. The art skill doesn't mention working with stone, either, and I don't think any reasonable GM would rule the way you're afraid of. I don't think that this is a big enough issue to be worth the bloat for our already-massive house rules section, as others have stated.


It is my understanding that, as a general rule, the title is relatively meaningless. Just as an "Invincible Guardsman" isn't truly invincible, "Dead Boy" armor isn't really "dead", etc. It's what's in the description that counts. I'm just trying to follow the "EU default" mindset here - you know, the one that says explicit > implicit... better safe than sorry, yeah? If you guys all say it's reasonable to conclude it covers stone, as a bunch of GMs (and DMs in some instances), I'm fine with that. It just doesn't say that in the skill itself, nor does anything in the description mention sculpting (as opposed to Art, which actually does mention it in the skill description).

It's relatively minor, though, I agree. There are bigger fish to fry.
Current Status
S.D.C.: 723/723
M.D.C.: 0
Armor: High Magus armor: 50/50 M.D.C., with spine helmet (45 M.D.C and has 9 spikes, insect-like eyes, and beaded mouthpiece), non-environmental
P.P.E.: 168/168
I.S.P.: 43/47

"Always on": Sixth Sense, Sense Evil

Current Conditions:


Saving Throws, Bonuses, and other handy information
Spells, psionic attacks, drugs and diseases that cause confusion, dizziness or dull the senses are 1/2 as effective (reduce penalties and duration by half).
Coma/Death: +21%
Magic (varies): +5
Lethal Poison (14+): +4
Non-Lethal Poison (16+): +4
Insanity (12+): +4
Psionics (12+): +3
Horror Factor (varies): +3
Illusions: +1 (+6 if magical)
Mind Control: +3
Impervious to possession!

Speed: Salomón runs 440 meters per minute/110 meters per melee round/22 meters per attack @ 5 attacks per round. 3min and 40 sec per mile, or 2 min 18 sec per km, at running speed. Can run at half speed for 23 miles (37 km) before fatigue sets in. At maximum speed, can run for 7.6 miles (12.2 km) before fatigue!

Nightvision 1000 feet (305 m)
A.R.: Skin has a natural Armor Rating (A.R.) of 16
Damage Resistance: Amaki are naturally resistant to most forms of damage; all non-magical attacks, including physical and energy attacks, do only half damage. Magical and psionic attacks do normal damage.
Exceptionally good hearing and vision (slightly above the best human levels)
Rapid healing (heal damage five times as fast as humans).
Max. Encumbrance: 80 lbs.
Max. Carrying Weight: 420 lbs.
Max. Lifting Weight: 840 lbs.
Max. Jumping Ability: 10' long, 5' high
Fatigues at half normal rate, can hold breath for 3 minutes, has good balance (+5%) and coordination.
User avatar
Salomón
Diamond Level Patron
Diamond Level Patron
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:54 pm

Re: Proposal: Atlantean Stone Master O.C.C. skill change

Postby Augur » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:49 pm

I'm declining this proposal. It's inconsequential.
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
To help support this site, use paypal.me/LloydRitchey
User avatar
Augur
Admin
 
Posts: 3745
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:19 pm
Location: lloyd.ritchey


Return to Augur's Corner Office

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest